He Heard me talk about our date.. Now “Traditional Man” Wants to Respond | Part 1

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He is here. Yeah. He's agreed to come on and he's have this conversation with like right now. Right now. Now he Are you ready?

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Let's do this.

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Mua.

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Hello, everybody. Welcome back to From Mrs. to Miz. I've been joined by Amy once again. I I just can't get enough. I can't get enough, girl.

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Happy to be here every time. Yes. It's always such juicy conversation. I love it.

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So juicy, which is why I brought you back for this one. Do you remember? It was probably about a month ago. We did an episode called Traditional Man. And for those listening, it was season eight, episode eleven, so you can go back and check it out. Do you remember this episode where I talked about my date with this so-called traditional man? I'm using air quotes if you're not on YouTube. Yeah.

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Yes, I do remember that. That was a great conversation. I remember carnations and I remember really kind of diving into yeah, the traditional man, what does that mean? And different perspectives on that. Yeah, that was a great one. It was

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So good. And I came off of that, like, heck yeah, I told my story. I told my truth. This is how the date went for me. And it was so good. Come to find out, hmm. He messaged me because he listened to this episode. But I'm like,

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Okay, girl, all the tea. Come on with

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See, well this makes me laugh first of all because I don't know. I guess I I never think that hmm, I'm talking about somebody that might actually be listening. You know, I mean we had one date. It wasn't, you know, it didn't go great in my perspective. And so I just talked about the story, but here we are. And let's just say that he's got some thoughts for us. He's got some thoughts. Yes. He reached out to me and simply said, I think we've got different perspectives on this date. And I do tell.

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So he reached out to you

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Yeah. I mean, to his credit, he wasn't nasty about it at all. He just felt like I got a few things wrong that maybe I interpreted things a little bit differently than he intended. And there were some bigger points that he wanted to clarify because I was like, Do you want to defend yourself? And he's like, No, I thought, yeah, he didn't he wasn't like mad about it or anything. He was like, No, I thought it was actually really great. I just want to clarify, interpret differently and tell you what I'm thinking.

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Clarify could mean a whole spectrum of things. So let's hear.

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Let's hear it. So let's talk about a few of them. Okay. So I felt on the date, I felt like he spent a lot of time telling me his thoughts about my dating, podcasting, all of that, instead of like really getting to know me. I think I said there wasn't many questions about like, well, tell me about your family or where you're from or what you know, about your like what did you used to do for work before podcasting? There was none of that, right? So

He already, and this is because he gave me a few notes. He gave me his notes and and gave me permission to tell the listeners what his thoughts were. So I'm sharing those now. So he said he wasn't giving me advice. He was just asking questions about some claims that I'd made publicly. And he thought that asking me about my passion, which is my podcast, showed interest in itself. So what do you think on that?

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Perfect, okay.

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Could we have genuinely experienced that conversation completely different? Well

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Of course. I mean, reality is perception. Perception is reality, right? So of course you can both be sitting at the same table at the same on the same date and walk away with two completely different perspectives. And it sounds like, let me not presuppose anything, but based on what you just said, his, you know, reiterating his outreach to you, it sounds like he kind of had not an agenda, but he had perception. Let me throw that word in there again. He he had a perception of you that he showed up with.

And it's almost sounded sounds like he kinda tried to reinforce that versus really get curious about okay, who is Andrea? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. To confirm his his assumption or or ideation of you, yeah.

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Yes. Okay, so there's more 'cause I said a lot in that one. my. Okay, there's of course the podcast insult. So I remembered him basically saying that women's podcasts are usually boring, but that ours was very entertaining. The best

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Definition of a backhanded compliment, yes. Yes.

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Yes. Now he said he never said that a female podcast was boring and that he genuinely thinks that we're entertaining. So fair correction. I'll give him that. I'm pretty sure that's what he said, but I'm gonna give him that one. I And we shall should we? Bring him one for me. I gave him that one. I'm like, okay, maybe I you know, I it's a touchy spot when you're talking about what I love and passionate about. So maybe I heard it a little differently.

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Are we tallying somewhere here?

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Okay. We'll give him that one, I guess. Alright, so things that he says that I just basically got wrong. He said that he never said paying for dinner entitled him to anything. Which no, he probably didn't say it, but that's what I heard. Yeah. So how are our how are our words

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Received, right? We need to get critical about how they are delivered. Okay, I can't okay. Hold on, hold on. Can we just stop for a second? So must go back and listen to what you say. Season eight, episode eleven. Yes. Okay, the traditional man. Okay. This is hilarious. So he listened to this podcast and then he reaches out to you and he's like, these are my rebuttals. And he wants you to share them here. His honor. Okay. All right. Keep going. I needed to make sure I'm following the game.

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Right.

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Good.

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Yeah.

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Yep, gave me permission to speak on his behalf. So he also said that he never asked or expected me to sleep with him that night. I don't remember saying anything about that. Maybe I said that something about the implication of buying me dinner entitles him to have sex on the first date or something like that. Maybe it was that I have to think about Okay. Where I thought we had a little bit of conflict.

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Okay. Can fact check that one. Yeah.

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Polarizing. He thought we had very pleasant discourse, that it was not combative at all. Which again is so funny. Isn't that wild how two people just feel so differently on that?

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Can you take yourself back to like what was your energy? Do you if I remember our conversation about that date on you know on the podcast, then it seems like it was pretty early on. You were fairly I'm gonna be careful with my CR. You were you had your energy shifted pretty early on.

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It did, I think, because he immediately went into well, a couple of things that I talked about, him testing me and a couple of his comments he made and then going right into the podcast. And I think because I didn't feel like there was any interest in getting to know me outside of those particular things, I think that's probably where my energy shifted a little bit. Yeah. So I do feel like I got a little bit combative in our conversation of when he would say things. I mean, I would question him and be like, Yeah, but I don't think this.

So it's not that it was unpleasant. He's right. It was pleasant. It wasn't terrible. We weren't screaming or yelling. We were still having a fine time. I was just collecting data. That's all. Nobody's Nobody. Okay. Didn't do any of that. Didn't do any of that. I do remember saying that, you know, he claimed to be this traditional man, Cheval Res all those values. Yet when he walked me out to my car, he stood at the back of my car and didn't come and open the door for me. And he addressed that.

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True.

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He said he didn't open my car door because he thought approaching my car that way might feel invasive. Okay.

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Are you guys raised in like different regions of the wor of the country no, I mean, in all seriousness, like is that a cultural sh just a cultural gap between the two of you?

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I don't think so. I mean, I'm trying to think of where he's from. It might he might even be here from LA. I'm not I don't totally recall, which okay, in all fairness, says I didn't totally get to know him either. That maybe there's that, but I don't know. The whole car door thing, I don't think that women do not they don't imply that that's being invasive by coming and opening my car door when I've already had the conversation about you that I enjoy a chivalrous traditional man. And that's what I was looking for.

So the fact that you, you know, planned the date, you planned you drove to me, you brought the flowers, you did all of these things that were traditional. But then when it came to opening my car door, that was invasive.

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Okay, yeah. So contextually it doesn't match the rest of it. Yeah. So do you think it was more of a he was kind of just put off by the end of it? Yeah.

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Do. I think he was already like, Yeah, we're probably not seeing each other again. I was already like, Yeah, we're probably not seeing each other again. So I think it didn't it just didn't matter and he didn't need to make that effort. I guess. I don't know why he would just stand at the back of the car. Yeah.

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That's interesting. I mean, I think of my guy and like he's going to do that for anyone. Like it doesn't matter if if if the date had even gone really south, he's still going to walk you to your car, make sure you get in safely, stand there and watch you pull away, make sure that you're all as well as long as he's still in your world kind of thing.

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Absolutely. Interesting. I'd be I'd be interested to hear a little more on that, but okay. Also okay, this one was probably not as nice of me to say. He did bring me flowers, which was a beautiful gesture. And not all men do that. And I did kind of dog the flowers a little bit. I did say that they were like small, like carnations and look like he picked himself. my God, Andrea. Well

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It let me ca if I could play devil's advocate there, I think it'd be kind of sweet, like if he has some flowers outside of the house. Cause I mean, obviously, could you spend thirty bucks on the flowers? Sure. That that part doesn't mean anything. So, you know, if they're small because like he picked them out of his mother's flower garden, that's precious. If they're small because he stopped at the gas station on the way there, it sometimes it's better left undone. Yeah.

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Exactly. And his only rebuttal to that was like they were not carnations. So he did agree. They were maybe smaller. They weren't the best representation of what he would normally bring on a date, but they were not carnations. So there was that.

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that like his was was that his first date flower tier?

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Maybe. That's interesting. And it stemmed from that whole conversation actually. I remember him saying that he was saying that he tells his buddies a lot of time that they should bring flowers. And I was thinking, beautiful, flowers are great. But then he made the comment about his buddies laugh. They go, Yeah, but when we bring flowers, the women laugh at us. And I'm like, why would they laugh at him laugh at them? And he said, Well, because they feel like

He, my traditional man guy, is actually these were his words, that he is tall, handsome, and successful. Those were his words. And so when he brings flowers, they're received differently than his bumbling friends, basically, you know, that are just that the flowers are received differently. So he had this conversation with me about that. So I think just my expectation of what the flowers.

would be I knew he was gonna bring flowers 'cause he talked about that. So they were just a little underwhelming. I think that's it.

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The whole day was a little underwhelming, it sounds like flowers are some mom. So what did he want when he reached back out? Like

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Reliving.

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Basically, yeah, he was just like, I just feel like I need to, you know, give my voice in this because there was a lot of really controversial things that I said because he did say that he was testing me. This was one other thing that he said he was testing me during the date. So just for a little bit of context, he asked me when I told him I bought a new dress for the date. I was investing, bought a new dress. His immediate question was, is it low cut? And I was like, feeling objectified. And I'm like, no, it's not low cut.

And he didn't say anything more at that point. And then at the dinner is when he basically said that he'd gone through my Instagram and that previously I'd had a picture in a bikini on there. I don't even know. Was I on a cruise? I don't even know. Whatever. But he said there also

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Are you allowed to have a picture in your bikini on your Instagram with zero frickin' explanation? There's that.

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There's that. Well, he felt that because I had worn a bikini in a picture for all of the world to see, that the man who is sitting in front of me, you know, having a a date with me should be obligated or or should be not obligated, should be able to receive that as well. Like he shouldn't have got the low cut dress because the others got the bikini is what I'm trying to be

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really curious for his motivation behind that comment.

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Right? It's very interesting 'cause he was just pointing out that men looking at my bikini picture are enjoying my body, basically. But when I did say I felt objectified, I will give him this. He said, Okay, fair. That wasn't

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See the point in his whole conversation. I understand the point, but what is your motivation for bringing this up?

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Yeah. And to literally tell me that he was testing me, I find that interesting. Because I'm not here

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It's not the word I would use there, but that was very diplomatic of you.

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Like why are you testing me on a first date? I'm not like that's not what this

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What is the test? What what are you looking for first of all, what's the pass bail?

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Yeah, I don't know. I guess if I said, Hell yeah, I'm gonna wear a low cut top, I would have passed. So would I have failed? Right, because

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Well where would you have failed?

Because from my perspective, that woman failed. I mean, again, perception, right? That's why I'm curious. What are your motivations, sir, behind some of these questions and some of this conversation? Like it's interesting. I see your point, but why did you bring this up?

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Why? And is posting a bikini picture the same thing as displaying your sexuality? I don't

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Do you get to decide that on a whim and it gets to be whatever you want on Tuesday and it can be completely different on Thursday and you owe no one any explanation? Correct.

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Mm-hmm. Yeah. I touched on a a few other really good polarizing statements that he made. He said a woman cares about the man's future, but a man cares about the woman's past.

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Okay I wanna

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Well, how's that for overgeneralization?

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Yeah. It crazy, right? Like he and he said it's not necessarily fair, right? But he believes it's primal and he compares it to me wanting a successful, taller, stronger man. Like I'm looking for that in the future. But when he's I don't I don't know. He lost me a little bit on that one. Like I'm like, what why are men why are women looking to the future and men want to know about the women's past? I don't necessarily agree with that.

I feel like a lot of men are like, we don't need to talk about our past, that's in the background, like we're moving forward. So I don't know and you know, is there any validity to his argument that women's standards are accepted while men's standards are? I mean, when we

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about the you know tall dark and handsome or whatever fill put in your own descriptors there right but that is you know research shows us that that comes from the pro the the drive for to to reproduce right you want to pick the strong healthy someone who's a viable partner to choose to reproduce go back to our you know prehistoric days right pre-evolution but you know it just I guess just my own anecdotal evidence I've never been in a relationship where

the the man was specifically interested in my past. That's interesting. I mean, of course we want to know the whole person. Like, yeah, I wanna know about where you grew up. Did you play volleyball in college? Like whatever.

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So

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But he's dating and stuff because I remember the conversation being about my my girlfriend that I told him the story that she was forty, whatever, dating a twenty nine year old. And I think seven years old. Yeah. And he was like, See, I wouldn't want to hear that from her about the guy that she dated because that just implies that she just wanted sex from him. And I was like, Okay, but what did he want from or yeah, but what he want from her, right? Like why

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Does it imply? Why do you assume that that means that she wanted sex from him? No. I've dated someone ten years younger than me and it had nothing to do with sex. I mean, of course, that was part of the relationship, but I'm saying I wasn't drawn to a person ten years younger than me, right? So no. I mean, I can debunk that. If that again, if that's a generalization or a stereotype that you're trying to make, I don't fit that. No.

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fit that either. I mean, yeah. And and maybe that's what it was. It were these statements were made just so boldly and blatantly. And it was just like, and then there was I think, you know, it felt like it was expected that I would not have any reaction or not have any like force to it. You know what I mean? And so he was just throwing this stuff out there and it was just, I guess, supposed to be accepted. Like another one he said, I'm sorry, you want to answer

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No. No, go ahead.

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Yes. He said that women control sex and men control commitment. And that any woman, any woman can attain any man she wants, but few can retain one they seek. And he said this to me multiple times that evening. I remember he said it at dinner and he had said it to me, I think, the day before when we were on the phone. He said the same thing, or had the question of like, Do you think you can retain a man that you seek? So he's very

He was very like specific about this stuff.

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He's it this comes across a lot of this conversation as very categorical. Like he needs to fit things in a box to understand them. And I get that that's the brain works, but we're just on a first date. Why are we trying to categorize and place judgment on and predictions of your past and your future?

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Your dote character potential.

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In an initial conversation. It's a lot. It's a lot. But I would love to hear, I would love to hear what's behind all of this. Like that would be super fun.

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I know. And so here's the thing. I mean, we can sit here and just talk about this all day and we can think about what he meant. But you know what? This time, I think we're just gonna ask him. You know what? 'Cause he's gonna text him. He's here. He is here. Yeah. He's agreed to come on and he's gonna have this conversation with like right now. Right now. Now he is asking the only ones to be audio, which we're gonna completely respect his decision on that.

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Tell me.

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And so yeah, we're gonna bring on. Are you ready?

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Let's do this. Yes. Okay. Name you'll introduce, I'm sure. Okay.

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Okay. Yes. So here we go. Traditional man. Welcome to from Mrs. to Miz. So traditional man, welcome to from Mrs. to Miz. How are you?

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Good ladies. Glad to be on.

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Wow, this is exciting. This is very exciting. I've not done this before where I had someone want to come on and address things that I've said about them. And honestly, I didn't even know you were listening. So I think I'll take that as a compliment to start out.

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like I mentioned, it's it's a pretty entertaining show, not for a woman.

It is entertaining period. So I took a listen and yeah, I had to clarify a few few things.

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Thank you for that. Appreciate that. Okay, so well, I just want to go back to a little bit like what was it like listening to that episode? Did you know immediately that I was talking about you?

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As soon as you said eight and a half, I knew it was

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Okay, Amy, do you want me to answer the question of egotistical or insecure? that's funny.

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Yeah.

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I see this one. I like

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No, I I did. so as we discussed there was a chance you may bear the contents of our date. And yeah, to my surprise it was so felt s there's a a little things that maybe not inaccurate but needed a little more context or maybe misinterpreted.

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And that's fair. And I will definitely give you kudos for reaching out and saying that because you know, that's what we often do, right? We say it from our perspective and how we saw things go. And so I I'm appreciating that you're challenging me here a little bit or letting me know your perspective is also great. It's really okay. okay, so we started out by saying that I felt like you weren't really trying to get to know me.

And that you were more asking, you know, it was about the podcast and telling me how like the things that I could do better on it. Not better, but like, you know, things that I could bring into it that would you know, sprite spoost spray my god, I can't spice it up. Wow.

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I don't believe it for a second.

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Yeah, I did not. I did not. and so, yeah, I you said like you were felt you were asking me about the podcast 'cause you were trying to get to know me better. So can you understand why maybe I experienced that differently?

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Sure, I perhaps and I would actually love your input on this is from my f from the feedback I receive, it seems men usually ask the same questions like what kind of music do you listen to? What kind of music? those questions that are surface level questions. Mm-hmm. I like to go a little bit deeper and since this is a I would guess a passion of yours, I'd like to follow out more about it and

Just how you how you came to create create the show. And and especially more so the background of the show and the the contents. That's what I w wanted to dive into and and more so just not make accusations but questions. Ask questions from the side of a map.

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Okay. And that's fair. That's fair. However, I would probably argue to say that I do think you need to hit a little bit on some of those basic questions. 'cause I could probably assume you don't know too much about me, like my kids or where I'm from or anything beyond the podcast. We didn't really touch too much on that stuff. So I would have probably said we could have balanced that out a little bit better.

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no, would actually that's a great question and again, would love your input on this and for other men listening. me personally, I would think I would think or the other two dudes listening, would it be even more perhaps invasive to ask about one's kids than it is to ask about your career? To me me personally, I mean and that's subjective, right? It yeah. I think it

People have differing opinions, but if I think that asking especially a woman about her children perhaps more invasive.

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Okay, I want to jump in really quick on that word invasive. What made you choose that? Because I'm not Andrea, did you did you maybe I missed it. Did you feel like that was invasive or okay. No. I'm curious, traditional man, where what made you choose invasive?

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or one could say nosy. But i I think especially more well one

The so f women are the most vulnerable of the sexes, right? So they have to be even even more cautious with whom they meet and who they bring into their lives. If I meet a a woman that perhaps is not to my liking, there's not much I have to worry about as far as my physical safety. Women on the other hand, well it is I mean, you guys it's it's obvious, right? If the wrong man can be

a lot more harmful than the wrong woman to me. Mm-hmm. So so the reason I use invasive is that not only are you do you have to take your safety into consideration, but that of your family as well.

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Okay, so you see it from a safety perspective of not I I'll I'll st I'll take your word that you said they're nosy, right? Okay, so you felt look I hear you saying that you felt like approaching the podcast and the career was a a s a safe place for Andrea to not feel like the questions were too

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Invasive.

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Well I mean it's all a guess. one can only guess that I'm just generalizing, and generalizing doesn't necessarily mean accurate.

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Yeah, 'cause don't you think you could have just said, Well, you know, I'm interested in hearing about your family or your kids. Is that something you're open to talking about? Could have gone that approach.

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Could have. Yeah. But that's

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Yeah. Anything you would do differently in that part in in regard to that part of the conversation?

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not at all. it and I'm again, it's just me generalizing. This is just from a large sample size of dates I've been on. From my experience, it's better to just ask those types of questions than family matters. One doesn't know if there's maybe there's issues in the household that could put a damper on the evening. I don't know. And it's really none of my business at that point.

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Okay. Interesting. Are you you know what? I'm not gonna ask those types of invasive questions.

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Do it, do it. no, do go ahead.

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I'm just I I find your approach to that. I think emotional safety, first of all, let me validate that. Emotional creating emotional safety is huge and and kudos for having that on your radar if that was your motivation for your direction of conversation. on the other hand, when you have a woman like Andrea or myself in front of you,

We don't necessarily need you to create that emotional safety for us. In a not not that f but as far as conversational topic, a well boundried, grounded, centered woman won't have any issues with letting you know what she is and is not comfortable talking about, I think would be my point. So maybe relinquishing a little bit of that, and kind of letting letting the other person guide it as they feel appropriate as well. Just an option. Nice.

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But again and and I love the word you used, need. So just like I don't need my iPhone, I'm not gonna die without it, but life would be definitely miserable with with it not not in my hand. So just because a woman does not need something doesn't mean it shouldn't be given to her.

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Touche and hence my point for validating the the fact that that was on your radar to create emotional safety. Very cool.

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Okay, there we go on that one. Okay, so I'm gonna go back a little bit, traditional man, and ask because that was if I'm not mistaken, that's what you had in your profile, right? That you are a traditional man. This is where this whole thing came about. Right. So what what would you say? What is traditional man to you? Maybe I misinterpreted it from the beginning because for me it was more about being chivalrous and

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Yeah.

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You know, well, I I guess you're watching out for my emotional safety and that kind of stuff. That is chivalrous and that is being a traditional man. But the way things went with the things we're gonna talk about in a few minutes didn't feel very traditional. So what does a traditional man look like to you?

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Sure. well starting from the the surface level stuff, meaning one is handy with tools, vehicle repairs, home repairs, being able to protect you in a dark street, foreign country or lonely alley. and and especially being the that emotional rock that a woman should lean on.

to me I'm very very adamant about the man should not burden the woman with with his issues. Those issues are discussed man to man, not necessarily from me to my loved one. Of course, within reason. Not I'm not saying every single thing. There's no such thing as an absolute. But but most things should be discussed man to man and it is my role to

be that again, that emotional rock for that woman.

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Okay. So it it's not even so much about what I thought of like chivalrous type stuff. Of even the basic stuff. Like and we could talk about that layer with you know, like the door opening or I'll put you on the inside of the sidewalk. Like those things you're not referring to. You're referring more to how you treat a woman as opposed to if you were hanging out with your guys.

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Ha ha.

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no. I mean those are the just some of them. Of course, like as a traditional man would do, I brought you flowers, I opened the door, I chose the restaurant that was near near your place. had you sit down first.

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Not very much appreciated. Thank you.

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And so so I mean, those I could go on and on.

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So I think, you know, in order to define one role, right, as a traditional man, I think you have to also define the counterpart so that you understand how they kind of fit together.

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Yeah. Yeah. Very much. Very much. Okay, so let's move on from that. So okay, I'm gonna talk about the whole I was testing you. This is a good one. This is probably the phrase that bothered me the most. when you said So what exactly were you testing? This is how I saw it going that and I'm just gonna into context again for the people.

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Yeah, that's a good one.

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that I told you I had an I bought a new dress and then you asked me if it was low cut and I said nope and then I said but it still is gonna look great or whatever. And so then you did let me know at dinner that you were testing me because of the fact that I had a bikini picture on my Instagram.

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Sure.

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Yeah. Tell us more.

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Yeah, so it the testing you was further along in the conversation. my first claim was it was actually a question and I I posed the question why is it that I think we see it more so in gym culture where it perhaps a you know good looking female like yourselves may film herself at the gym d performing a certain exercise

But she is bothered when someone is looking at her, yet that video is going to be uploaded for the world to see. And so I made the comparison with the bikini photo. And just to preface it, there's nothing

wrong with it, it was simply a question. It was just more so a just I guess a inquiry into logic.

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Okay. And I guess I maybe would have taken it differently had you not said I was testing you, right? Like that's

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I was off to I I did not say it it initially.

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Wait, wait, wait.

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Backed it up though. What what if we backed it up to the question of why would we even ask if it's going to be a low cut dress?

(: 32:56

Absolutely. And so yes, Amy, to your to your point, very valid. And that's where it's you're that's me being aggressive, in the with with flirting. yes, and and you're you're right. Is it is it the was it appropriate? Perhaps not, but it was a a chance I was willing to take.

(: 33:22

Kudos for your honesty there.

(: 33:24

Kudos for the honesty. Yet it begs the question of you felt you could be aggressive and ask a question about me wearing a low dress, but you could not ask about my kids. You found that to be invasive or emotionally insecure. You know, you were not giving me the security yet to ask me about a low cut dress felt like that was a better route to go before you even knew me, because you asked me that before the date, right?

(: 33:52

Yeah, but I think usually in dating one has a relationship prior to meeting one's family, right? It's not the other way around. So that's kinda how I treat it. It's like if you and I made out or even dated for three or four weeks, it it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to meet your family. And at the at the right I mean push to the right of a timeline.

(: 34:11

Yeah.

(: 34:13

Yeah.

(: 34:24

Andrea, that was an excellent, excellent point, just because it kind of, you know, it goes back to what we've talked about in in other episodes, but really what's pertinent here too as well is is the the coherence, the con the consistency. Yeah. So it's kind of like in one place, there was a sense of being objectified and admittedly aggressive flirting. And in another context, there's much care taken in topic of conversation to create emotional safety. So

That inconsistency alone kind of dissuades one from feeling that safety. Right.

(: 34:58

Yeah. Throws you off and feels unexpected. Like I was just not, I guess, expecting that for a traditional man.

(: 35:05

Well, I mean through but by that logic shall things like intercourse be postponed until one's children are met?

(: 35:17

I don't see the correlation.

(: 35:18

Yeah, meaning that.

(: 35:19

Sure. Of course I'll I'll explain it. So with with me asking or inquiring about a low cut dress, that's being flirtatious. as I've already seen there's you know similar photos of that online. but as far as the the whereabouts of of children, that's more so it I think I mean, in your experience do you

Do you first introduce a man to your children or do you go about the relationship first?

(: 35:53

Go about the relationship.

(: 35:55

Yeah. So so same thing. Or when it's to me I think if if a woman wants me to know about her kids, then she'll bring them up and then I'll follow through. But if the children are not brought up into the conversation, at least for me, I don't I don't feel it's appropriate and and yes, to your point, Amy, that's it is inconsistent with me being flirtatious. But in that in that sense, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to ask about kids.

I just because and again, just generalizing, but I'm sure women have had negative experiences with men and perhaps you know what with with kids or I I don't know. I don't know the history, so that's how that's usually how I approach that.

(: 36:46

Okay. And I say I mean a couple of things for me was just that had you made the comment, I think about the dress, the low cut dress, okay, that was flirty and fun. And maybe it was in the moment like, are you is it a low cut dress? And I was like, nope, you know, very cute and fun and flirty. I think it was the fact that then it was you kind of doubled down on it when you asked me about or said implied that you were testing me because of the

the photo on my Instagram, which just wanna make sure that I did not give you my Instagram.

(: 37:16

Right. For sure. And I went Yes, so

Yeah, and or what was what was the question?

(: 37:26

no, I was just making a statement that I found it interesting because it could have been it was very different for me had you just made the little flirty comment, we moved on from there and nothing else was brought up about that. But then you chose to bring it up later on something that I did not even give you permission to go and and you didn't ask me for my Instagram and I'm like, Yeah, go check it out. You went and checked it out on your own. You searched through it and then you came back and essentially threw that back at me, right? The kind of

imply that I'm putting myself out there for everybody to see, but I'm not going to wear a low-cut dress for you.

(: 38:03

So I would say the point I and just to clarify, I mean, I would say you're a public figure, right?

(: 38:09

I would like to say that as well, traditional.

(: 38:11

Okay. So yeah, so I mean, I don't think there's a permission request on any of the photos or links that are on your podcast, right?

(: 38:22

No, I just think that that to me is more like I would find that way more invasive for you to go look at my social media than for you to ask me about my kids. And I think that we also, you know, like the idea of talking about kids and I and maybe this is where a little bit of the disconnect was, is that you see asking about somebody's kids as a way bigger thing than I think I do. Like I I see it as like, yeah

You're just asked about my kids. I'm telling you, my kids are adults. It's not like I have little kids that I'm worried about. You're gonna meet them and it's gonna just be the thing, right? They're like adults, right? So for me just you to go, hey, like, so you have two boys, girl, whatever, and we just have a conversation about the kids, whereas you see that from what it sounds like as a much bigger deal. Like you asked me about my kids means I'm ready for you to meet them.

(: 39:17

Yeah. Right. It's I I like the saying, just because you're dating doesn't mean your d kids have to be.

(: 39:24

Okay. Amy, anything you want to add to that before?

(: 39:27

I mean, the double kids thing, like that's some basic demographics, like, okay, where are you from? Are you know, where have you have you ever been married? It's probably not a great first date question. But tell me a little bit about you would be a really easy opener, right? And that way the other person has the opportunity to share what they would like. Yeah. but can we hit on the test of base? Let's get let's let's get a little curious about what

(: 39:48

Yeah.

(: 39:51

Sure. And just just to close up that point with to me okay. Do you guys prefer those same boring questions or maybe maybe something a little deeper and to quote I forgot who said spicier. if anything, it was not a boring evening that you could say, he asked the same stuff. at least it's something different and plus you end up

I would say learning, learning about more so doing self reflection or more so about men or of what type of man you would not want to date.

(: 40:32

think if if really what it comes down what I'm hearing from the two of you as a third party here we're being more about the energy behind the questioning, right? It's not like any particular line of questioning was wrong inherently or inappropriate. It sounds it sounds like it was more a kind of the energy behind it. was maybe in and and the the disconnect between the delivery and the reception, maybe.

(: 40:57

I'll try not to lick my lips the next time I ask that question then.

(: 41:01

Amy Traditional Man, come on. I will say I do wanna I do wanna point out because I want to make sure everybody knows that that when I did say to you that I felt objectified during our notes, that you did say, Okay, fair. We'll give you that, right? Like you did. Yeah. You understood why I did, right?

(: 41:11

Yeah.

(: 41:28

Yeah. Yeah, sometimes you're aggressive and it doesn't play out. Yeah. I felt subjectified by the waiters, if you remember.

(: 41:35

Tell us why, 'cause I know you want to tell.

(: 41:38

Let's see if you have a number.

(: 41:41

I do remember that they asked about your your chest, what you lift.

(: 41:47

Yeah, and I had to tell them that they were plants. Cosmetically enhanced, yes. Yeah.

(: 41:52

Yes. Which they're not.

(: 41:55

How would you know?

(: 41:57

Because I heard your follow up answer when you said they were not, but you you enjoyed the question. Did did you feel objectified by him asking about your chest?

(: 42:09

No, of course not. I it's it's well it even if if it were a woman, that's I think the what I'd like to if or at least acknowledge that we are attracted to different things and attract different things, right? So or v we value different things and are valued for different things. So things like that. a man will never ever be objectified, nor will he ever ever be used for sex. It just it does not happen.

(: 42:38

Totally disagree. One thousand percent disagree. But that's okay. That's a totally another conversation.

(: 42:43

No.

(: 42:43

no, all right two of the episode.

(: 42:47

Yes.

(: 42:47

Right. Okay. I could

(: 42:50

Testing. I I'm I'm curious because we can we that's a whole rabbit trail, the whole objectified and and it sounds like you were more flattered, not objectified. So to compare the two, when we know that culturally women are objectified and have been for millennia, could be seen as problematic, but we shall move on maybe from that.

(: 43:08

yeah, it's an and she yes, absolutely. yeah, there's there's no doubt about that.

(: 43:15

Okay. So I do want to go back to one question that I had that you actually made a statement to me where you were saying you did not ask me to have sex with you that evening. Right. Like and I believe that was in response to me. I think I did say on the last episode in reference to the testing that you felt because I I put a bikini on my Instagram that you should be getting the same thing that all the men are getting and that

Essentially, I should have sex with you. Is that where we tied that in? Was that

(: 43:47

No. Not at

(: 43:49

you owed traditional plan. Since the IG picture existed, was there a sense of entitlement on your end? That's a

(: 43:58

I love this question. Yeah, I do. No, I I love this question.

(: 44:01

Okay, let me ask it let me ask it traditionally. Does a woman showing her body publicly create any expectation about what she should give a man privately?

(: 44:11

Not necessar so no one is entitled to anything. You have to earn everything. but

(: 44:18

Did you earn my low cut dress? Did you earn that low cut dress?

(: 44:23

Well, I would say so.

(: 44:27

How?

(: 44:28

Well, I mean what's

(: 44:31

You hadn't what had you done yet to earn the low cut dress? In the moment you even asked him.

(: 44:36

I was gonna become a pit driver. One one could also ask, What did you do to earn dinner with me?

(: 44:43

I didn't. Again, that goes back to a traditional man that shoved Maris in his

(: 44:46

So you know what? I'll I'll answer it for you. I'll answer it for you. Go for it. You guys have you guys ever heard of the term vulnerability? Yeah.

(: 44:55

I'm gonna assume there was no sarcasm intended there.

(: 44:58

Yeah.

(: 44:58

No, but and this is this is so one one has perhaps a a very one dimensional view on the the definition of the term vulnerability. But a as a man, we're probably gonna be vulnerable in many other ways. One of them is w what's valuable to us, which are and what we're valued for, which are our resources. So I invested my time, energy and effort to show you a good time, as you should. You're a beautiful woman,

Fantastic lady. So I was vulnerable because I did not expect anything in return. Right. I did not expect a kiss, nor did I expect you for you to even be attracted to me. Yet I still was vulnerable and put those resources on the line. And that's I think where the disconnect in the dating world is. Immediately it's it's what am I entitled to? So if if I

Perhaps now you don't have to do anything in return again, but if you're trying to attract a man, if you're interested in him, I would think like he did mention this, you know, I do like him, he seems like a great guy, why not give him something that is out there publicized for the world to see? It I to me, whether I'm not saying I am right or I am wrong, it's more so a question of logic.

(: 46:28

Okay. I have to. First of all, thank you for me explaining vulnerability to women. That was a bold move. Thank you for that. Now, also, it is multidimensional. Yes. Okay. And the vulnerability piece, everyone entering a potential relationship, anyone putting themselves into a new space with a new human, that is vulnerability. you can count the cost, but I believe what I'm hearing.

solely my reception of what you have delivered. Sure. there is an under there is definitely an undertone of entitlements. And I think you're kind of trying to tie tie your vulnerability piece into that entitlement, which is an interesting mix. And you know, you get to do that. We all, everyone comes to a date of their own accord. And I'll just leave it at that.